3 weeks ago
A riveting caller podcast has fixed listeners a glimpse into nan vulnerable and murky world of organized crime, supplier cartels and home and world panic organizations done nan eyes of 2 elite undercover agents who 'lived it.'
Hosts Giovanni Rocco and Dutch McAlpin stock their ain harrowing tales, life-threatening scenarios and nan regular challenges they faced successful bid to drawback nan bad guys successful a play podcast 'Inside nan Life.'
The podcast, nan first episodes of which aired past week, is produced and filmed astatine The Mob Museum, officially known arsenic nan National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement, successful Las Vegas, Nevada.
The show features a assortment of guests from nan crime world from informants to rule enforcement officials - including Frank Panessa, erstwhile DEA supplier who infiltrated nan Sicilian Mafia, besides known arsenic Cosa Nostra, successful nan infamous 'Pizza Connection' heroin lawsuit successful nan early '80s.
Rocco said to DailyMail.com this week astir Operation Charlie Horse, nan national undercover cognition that brought down 10 high-ranking members and associates of nan New Jersey DeCavalcante Mafia Family that was nan inspiration for deed play 'The Sopranos.'
Giovanni Rocco (pictured left) and Dutch McAlpin (right) connected nan group astatine The Mob Museum nan producers of nan play podcast 'Inside nan Life'
The wall wrong The Mob Museum showcasing photos of 'The Mob successful America.' The depository is located successful Nevada, and is nan National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement
Over nan people of nan probe, he had a squad moving connected nan lawsuit conducting surveillance, and often relied connected chap agents for illustration Dutch McAlpin to thief erstwhile necessary.
Rocco led nan infiltration into nan mafia's ranks and was nan only heavy screen supplier who had an ongoing narration pinch Charlie 'the hat' Stango, aka Charlie 'the beepers' Stango, and different members of nan DeCavalcante crime family.
Rocco, who spent years moving arsenic an undercover agent, said it initially did not commencement retired arsenic a Mafia probe.
He recalled, it was mid-2012 erstwhile he showed up for a supplier woody they were doing successful Atlantic City. They were investigating a feline by nan sanction of James 'Jimmy Smalls' Heeney, a coke trader from Elizabeth, New Jersey, who had ties to nan Bloods thoroughfare pack whom nan FBI wanted Rocco to engage.
'I showed up for that, and then, it conscionable benignant of took a life of its own,' he said.
It wasn't agelong earlier he had a caller identity, Giovanni Gatto, who had a criminal past, and served immoderate clip successful prison.
He remembered that Stango was nan target of an investigation. Their narration was like a begetter and son, though Rocco did not needfully comprehend Stango to beryllium a father-figure, he did dainty him for illustration a son.
'I told them I didn't cognize excessively overmuch astir nan mob, and made them explicate nan life to me, nan inner-workings.'
He 'would explicate it to me... for grounds purposes.'
Rocco, who is Italian-American, was acquainted pinch nan mafia and its civilization anterior to nan case.
Stango took Rocco nether his wing, unknowingly providing him pinch intelligence that would yet thief nan government's lawsuit against nan crime family.
Undercover bull Giovanni Rocco became his mafia persona Giovanni Gatto, who had a criminal past, and served immoderate clip successful prison
Rocco was meticulous successful really he went astir his each move, but said erstwhile they started calling him 'G' aliases 'cous' (short for cousin) aliases 'cuisine,' he 'knew he made it a small further.'
'Our narration was growing. I was comfortable, but I knew ne'er to time off my defender down because these guys are shooters, convicted felons, immoderate of them were murderers. Convicted, served clip for murder.'
'I knew that immoderate guys ever had a limb connected them and carried guns, truthful yeah, astatine a hairsbreadth trigger's notice.'
He said his capo, Charlie Stango was a lifelong personnel of Cosa Nostra of nan Mafia and he came up nan ranks of nan DeCavalcante crime family.
He was made a worker and past made a captain, nan highest ranking level.
Rocco said Stango had him oversee a 'bunch of guys from a mini crew' and reported straight to 'the bosses.'
The undercover world he lived successful was dark, and 1 mendacious move, he said, and they look astatine you sideways.
'They don't break statement pinch you. They don't spell different measurement and motion an NDA pinch you. It's not really nan existent world works,' he said. 'At a moment's notice, they don't show you, "Hey, we're reasoning astir whacking you," right? You ne'er cognize erstwhile it's coming.'
He described his capo arsenic 'methodical,' moreover paranoid.
'Your encephalon ever has to beryllium moving successful different cogs and wheels because you are moving a case. You're not conscionable a criminal, you're an undercover supplier and person to cod nan grounds that you request for nan prosecutorial broadside of nan case.'
During nan operation, he managed to grounds secretly hundreds of conversations relating to a wide scope of crimes including counterfeit and contraband equipment trafficking, storage robberies, motortruck hijackings and supplier trafficking.
Rocco explained that while he was progressive pinch nan DeCavalcante family, he was besides assisting successful different undercover operations including supplier cartes, and infiltrating nan Blank Panthers, and nan Chinese Crime Family, nan Triads.
'I was surviving 3 to 4 different lives,' he recalled. 'I had aggregate identities, different societal information numbers, day of births.'
During his clip pinch nan DeCavalcantes, he became 'the correct manus man' of Stango, whom prosecutors believed was a long-time skipper successful nan crime family.
The caput of nan New Jersey DeCavalcante Crime Family Simone DeCavalcante, aka 'Sam nan Plumber' (right), was nan alleged godfather of nan crime family, which inspired nan 'Sopranos'
Charlie 'the Hat' Stango (pictured) was indicted pinch Paul Colella and his boy Anthony Stango connected charges of conspiracy to perpetrate murder, supplier trafficking and adultery successful March 2015. He was sentenced to 10 years successful situation 2 years later. In July 2022, he was released from national situation and went into a New York halfway house
While assuming a different life, sanction and personality, he was besides trying to support his existent identity, which included being a begetter and husband.
'I had my family life, my regular, existent identity, arsenic we telephone it,' he said. 'My kids to raise, my wife, to make happy and support that family equilibrium astatine nan aforesaid time.'
But, it wasn't ever easy.
Rocco, who described himself arsenic a 'seasoned mature undercover,' he was capable to intertwine his undercover world pinch his individual life -but, different agents whitethorn have handled it differently.
'When they springiness you these assets, we telephone them assets, whether it's a boat, a car, an apartment, a penthouse - an undercover could get very quickly swept up and lulled and autumn successful emotion pinch surviving a different lifestyle,' he said.
'You time off each your problems behind, and past you person personification other footing nan measure for you, for intermezo and each this sexy worldly that goes connected successful your life.'
When asked if he was ever challenged aliases if his leader was ever onto him, he said that his training enabled him to mitigate a business that could person gone dark.
Giovanni Rocco pictured (left) connected nan surveillance pinch Charlie 'the Hat' Stango (far right) wearing sunglasses during nan infiltration. It is chartless who nan man successful nan mediate is. The photograph was captured connected surveillance and taken successful nan mediate of Operation Charlie Horse
A floor plan of nan New Jersey DeCavalcante Crime Family
'You request to support composure. You request to support professionalism. You ever person to beryllium prepared.'
He shared a story. 'One night, we had dinner. I had a bully people pinch my crew. We each made money, truthful I celebrated. We each spell to dinner, and it was precocious astatine night, and we left.
'As we were saying our goodbyes and paying our respects, 1 of nan guys said, "You know, cuz, we're opinionated present for nan past 15 minutes, and that Exxon state position crossed they measurement had astir 10 cars successful and out. I'm hurting and Christmas is correct astir nan area and I request to score.
He said to Rocco. 'I've sewage 2 masks and hanguns successful nan trunk. You want to rob nan state position pinch me? Let's do it.'
Rocco said to DailyMail.com, 'What do you opportunity to that? So, you really request to talk your measurement retired of that, and I did that night.
'I told him, 'Look we person different money coming in, let's not do thing stupid. Give maine a mates of days I'll person a people coming, and I'll divided it pinch you.'
He added: 'You mitigate it, but you've sewage to mitigate it speedy - propulsion thing retired of your pants really accelerated and dream it works.'
Rocco explained successful a dicey business specified arsenic that one, that is erstwhile he would present Dutch.
He'd say, 'You cognize that feline Dutch, I ever talk about. Dutch is looking to "hit a spot and that he has sewage to move a truckload of worldly whether it's cigarettes aliases something."'
Rocco explicate that 1 he knows 'the score' is coming in, it would easiness immoderate imaginable threat for him.
Pictured: Tony Soprano, nan fictional crime leader of nan deed HBO drama, The Sopranos
In March 2015, Stango was indicted pinch Paul Colella and his boy Anthony Stango connected charges of conspiracy to perpetrate murder, supplier trafficking and adultery successful March 2015.
Two years later, Stango, past 71, was sentenced to 10 years successful situation aft being convicted.
For Rocco, it was a defining infinitesimal successful his decades-long career, but 1 that besides forced him to relocate his family, and extremity his profession arsenic an undercover agent.
In July 2022, he was released from national situation and went into a New York halfway house. That aforesaid year, Rocco wrote nan book 'Giovanni's Ring: My Life Inside nan Real Soprano.'
Pauly Walnuts, (pictured acold left) played by character Tony Sirico, and Chrisopher Maltisanto, played by Michael Imperioli (pictured 2nd to right), adjacent to crime leader Tony Soprano, James Gandolifini. Also pictured are Steven Van Zandt (middle left) and Vincent Patore (pictured backmost right)
Rocco said successful this business location are 'personal and master sacrifices' that are made erstwhile you perpetrate to this statement of work.
This includes 'time distant from my family was nan biggest sacrifice that truthful galore undercovers, and operatives, rule enforcement successful general, make those sacrifices.'
He continues to usage a different name; Giovanni Rocco, is not his existent name.
When asked who was playing him successful The Sopranos, he laughed and said, 'It depends connected who I had to be.'
'Some days, I had to beryllium for illustration a Paulie Walnuts. Right?' he said.
'I had to springiness a small sensation of what mightiness person been -- an ex con -- because I did person a criminal history. My fable was that I had to beryllium successful situation truthful I had amended behaviour myself for illustration Paulie Walnuts, but astatine nan aforesaid time, a hairsbreadth trigger of a Christopher Moltisanti.'
Today, Rocco on pinch McAlpin stock their stories pinch their play guests, including John Gleeson, lead charismatic connected nan racketeering-murder tests of John Gotti; Vic Orena, a retired national judge; and Vicent Pastore, nan character who played Sal 'Big P****' Bonpenserio connected HBO The Sopranos.
Other guests see Sal Polisia, a erstwhile Mafia subordinate turned national witnesser against crime leader John Gotti; and Frank Calabrese, Jr., mobster-turned-government informant whose testiony helped return down nan Chicago Outfit, among others
New episodes driblet each Thursday astatine 8 americium EST (5 americium PT) connected Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube.
